This post uses both Kabbalah and Quabbalah interchangeably. We are extremely grateful for Ray in spending the time answering our many questions in such detail. It was lovely to have this communication with him as he brings deep insight into many of these topics as he truly walks the walk and has spent countless hours seeing what works most efficiently and safely. I still remember back in 2008 when I discovered Franz Bardon and Initiation into Hermetics. I was so excited with so many questions, Ray was one of those kind individuals who answered my questions and even did some webinars with us early on, more than a decade ago. So as you can see, Ray truly knows this material intimately.
If you would like to read more about Rays Magical Quabbalah course then please see here.
PAA Thank you for this interview. Could you briefly introduce your organisation SURA and its approach to education.
Ray: Thank you for the opportunity! I founded the Sura Academy around ten years ago with this idea to support spiritual seekers, especially those who walk the path of Franz Bardon. I offer personal coaching for an efficient approach in spiritual training. On our platform we discuss related topics, questions and experiences. We have a very nice international community of spiritual students who follow the universal path of initiation. Individual goals on the path are also supported by me as it is not a “must” to work in the way of Franz Bardon. An individual approach can make more sense.
PAA: How does education within SURA Academy and nextsteptomastery.com differ from simply tackling IIH via solo practice by oneself.
Ray: I have been on the path for about 30 years now and I would have liked to have had someone to give me advice, someone to discuss questions with. Unfortunately, no one was available and so progress was partially a real challenge, taking a lot of time and effort for studies and experiments. Having to do all on yourself is a big burden. This experience led me to the wish to be supported by brothers and sisters on the path, so that they can save precious time, making better progress in a most efficient way.
PAA: Does everything within IIH need to be completed to safely move onto PME or is it sufficient to have the elements, fluids and Akasha training in place.
Ray: A few topics are optional, simply depending on the preferences of the student/master. Here is the point to understand how things work and in best case you make experiences with the topics so that you can evaluate them. So, for example, depending on your individual activities in life, it is the question if or how often you need to work with elementals, with elementars or with astral traveling. Even such simple things like creating talismans is a question of individual needs or usage. Some magicians create talismans for others, or they like to use them by themselves while other magicians have not a single talisman. In conclusion the message is: Understand all topics, make practical experiences to know the practical application but if you make use of them in life is your individual decision.
For PME and KTQ it is most important to have managed the refinement and empowerment process, so that you are in control of all energies and that you are able to unite with the divine virtues like described in the tenth step. Otherwise PME can be a disappointment and KTQ won’t work. The deities or spirits of the spheres expect a certain degree of maturity or mastery, otherwise a visit or a request of acknowledgement doesn’t work in the sense of Bardon. If you can do mental traveling and if you make it into the sphere of a deity, then it is a matter of kindness if the deity receives you and helps you. If you are a master then the deity receives you as the king or queen that you are (in the spiritual symbolic meaning). This is truly a difference. Then initiation, blessings and full support are offered by the deity.
PAA: As a native German speaker what differences, if any, have you noticed between German materials and English materials? For IIH, PME, KTQ.
I know the pronunciation is something often mentioned in KTQ, what about the instructions of IIH is it largely correct or are there some areas where you think the change to English has caused us to miss the point of the exercise?
Ray: Indeed, the translations of all three books, in main of IIH and KTQ cause real pains. There are translation errors and the commentaries of the translators as well as their “correction” of mistakes are something which is counterproductive for the goals which Bardon had set for his books. We have to see that his teachings are in main detailed instructions which need to be followed to realize the desired results. If the instruction is changed due to translation errors, then the results are questionable or bad. Now, I do not blame the translators as they followed their human nature, with good intentions but the results are still painful. KTQ especially, suffers a lot from incomprehensible mistakes, for example regarding the right colors of the letters. Now, the problem is that Bardon´s way of describing things is very complex already in the German original teachings. So, it takes a high effort to understand what he means and then a high effort to translate everything correctly. In the end, – only an experienced practitioner can understand Bardon´s teachings completely and such a person would be needed for a high quality translation. I personally hope that the present translations of the new publisher are better. I can only recommend to compare translations with the original German teachings with Online translators like DeepL if something sounds strange or is questionable. I think that IIH and PME can be done even with the errors, KTQ not.
PAA: What can we do to ensure our practice is rigorous and not self deceiving? Nowadays with so many people practicing on their own with no wider community there is the potential that we can fool ourselves and not truly attain what we think we have.
Ray: Yes, this is an important question for sure. From my perception there are people who are lost in self deception. This should not be the goal. There are a few security factors which help very well. The focus on the personal ego with ego expansion leads in general to self deception. So, the true seeker should be humble and should go beyond the limitations of the ego, setting higher goals, following higher ideals. For example, if you desire truth, wisdom, refinement, etc. then you cannot get lost in ego traps. It is the mystical attitude which is needed to walk the path of the magician in a safe way. The development of the heart chakra and the crown chakra is also crucial, – divine love and divine consciousness. Both help to heal and to integrate the human self, the ego in a positive, lawful way. There is a mystery connected to the so-called ego which must be understood and realized. Otherwise imbalances and problems come up. Another point is that things simply must work. If you cannot do something, you are not a master in this aspect, – something needs improvement. If things work well, then it is a good sign of progress and mastery. One important point – there are things which a normal human cannot understand as these topics belong to the divine nature. For example, if you ask someone about the nature of almightiness then he might think about the Avengers, Superman or very rich people but he cannot create a realistic idea as he lacks experiences and comparison possibilities. On the other hand, if you realize the divine virtue of almightiness practically in yourself, you understand its nature and you can explain it even to normal people in a way that they comprehend it on an intellectual level. A last point is the acknowledgement of your maturity and progress by other initiates and especially by the deities of the spheres. A true master is a divine authority in creation and will be treated in this way. In conclusion, most important is the permanent introspection to check who we are, where we are, what we are doing, if there are any imbalance or mistakes which need to be corrected, etc. And if we walk the path in love and growing wisdom with humbleness and natural joy, then we can be sure to be on the right track. If possible, then it is good to get feedback from more developed, older brothers or sisters on the path. Self-reflection is simply important.
PAA: You are well known for your organisation skills and efficiency. How can we best organise our time towards efficient practice? What can we do within IIH, PME, KTQ to make our training more efficient and impactful?
Ray: Thank you. Yes, time is precious and we should focus on progress to not waste any time. Growing old and wasting time is unfortunately very easy and something which we regret at the end of the incarnation. Further on, this incarnation offers the greatest opportunities for growth. In comparison with other incarnations, it is the big lottery win. I recommend reading books about management and project management to understand how you can manage yourself, life and your training better. Indeed, it is very easy as you define standards, setting goals and milestones, going through evaluation and improvement processes. The right attitude and the focusing of all available techniques and powers on one goal offer efficiency. And certainly, a mentor or coach or older brother on the path can help a lot too. Without a mentor you can easily waste years without realizing the real cause of not making good progress. The right attitude is the mystical attitude. Bardon simply assumes that the future magician has a mystical attitude, a longing for enlightenment, refinement and the initiation into the mysteries of creation. Those who orientate only on their egos, desiring power and control over others lack the mystical attitude, do not care about refinement, love and wisdom, and block themselves in this way for real progress. Besides these points, I suggest looking for smart ways, smart approaches in the development of exercises. Many students just read the instructions of Bardon and get directly frustrated as it appears as a torture to do imagination exercises with a fork, for example. Indeed, we should enjoy all exercises, creating them in a motivational way, with fun and a higher meaning or application. If you connect different techniques or exercises in a smart way, you can easily get something of value. So for example why not directly working on an own talisman by applying imagination exercises and instructions for working with vital energy? This can be done easily and the results can be controlled well too. The point with Bardon´s books is that they are composed with a focus on the three Tarot Cards. This means that the teachings are limited to the Tarot Cards and not prepared in regards to efficiency or the level of motivation of the student or any further, smart factors. For example, it would make a lot of sense if the beginner studies directly the laws of wisdom, the wisdom teachings as they are very important for success and progress on the path. To overcome the limitations of the three/four Tarot Cards, I want to develop a training system with the focus on mastery and efficiency, integrating all important teachings, also those beyond hermetics – The Path of the Master. Bardon´s teachings would be reengineered. Unfortunately, I lack time but I hope that I manage this before I leave this world.
PAA: In regard to the application of depth point and conscious transfer etc……..how can students efficiently practice these things and apply them. Knowing them is one thing but what practical things can they work on to gain true mastery of these practices?
Ray: The use of the depth point belongs to the Akasha principle. It is simply the most efficient technique to control any kind of space, object, body, organ, room, etc. and to charge or accumulate energy in it. I always work with the depth point because of all its advantages. The transfer of consciousness is also a matter of the Akasha principle. The mind has no limitations and can move in time and space deliberately. Magic is a lot about moving or traveling to get specific information or to become active for some kind of operation. For the practical approach I think it is most useful to understand that the mind already belongs to Akasha, that the mind can naturally move in time and space independent from the physical body. We do not need to move the head or the brain. We just move the consciousness, our awareness, our attention, our sensation and this happens already by intention, by keeping the attention on an object for a longer period of time. It is a natural process. For the start it makes sense to move the consciousness into body parts. How does my right hand feel? Feel it. At some point you become the hand. You are the hand. Then take other body parts. Then take objects. And understand that it is on the one hand a natural process of attention and on the other hand it is a matter of imagination, similar to playing a role. “It is easier than I think. It is possible. I can do it. It is a natural ability. I just have to get used to it.” This is a good approach. Unfortunately, most think that it is difficult, unnatural, etc.
The depth point works in three ways. One approach is to simply grow the size of the object to “as big as possible” with yourself as the small center point. The second approach is to shrink yourself by imagination to the size of an atom in the center of the object. And the third approach is to fix the depth point with your will and then to work with an object, for example to charge it quickly. In all cases, we work with the Akasha principle, going beyond time and space, the limitations of material forms. In the training we should make experiences with all different approaches. Later we choose our favorite techniques. School versus life. In general, it is all about imagination, intention, will. A great support in the mastery of such techniques is the training with the Akasha element as you refine your mind perfectly. The Akasha qualities of the mind will be increased and strengthened. Mind transfer and other techniques are much easier afterwards.
PAA: With more and more people practising this work, do you feel it is good for an individual to go through each book? Or after IIH gravitate towards PME or KTQ depending on what attracts the practitioner the most.
Ray: Bardon´s mission was to reveal the four Tarot Cards and the universal teachings they offer. These are teachings beyond the frame of time and space. The realization in time and space, in the material world is a different question. This means that not all spiritual seekers or students are of the same nature, the same level of progress or maturity but that we all are individuals with an individual history, individual goals and individual talents or abilities. Indeed, everyone should be picked up where he is on the path. Some are very old souls with lots of experiences while others might be complete beginners. This all means that the Tarot Cards, the books offer orientation and can be understood as a check off list for the human soul of what can and what should be accomplished on the path of universal initiation and development. And when you understand it in this way, you find freedom in making individual decisions for your studies and training. If you feel ready for KTQ then this training certainly offers great advantages for working with PME and in general in all fields of magic and mysticism. On the other hand, if you go through PME without KTQ you will have different experiences as you have a different status, a different understanding. Meeting kings and queens of the spheres as a prince or princess is different to such meetings when you are a king or queen yourself. KTQ makes you “old”, wise and powerful. Without KTQ after step 10 of IIH you are a prince, young and ready for adventures. The inner call will lead all of us to making the right decisions. In the end we all will finish the check off list completely, in this incarnation or a later one.
PAA: What is your response to people who say these entities though ‘real’ are still contained within the practitioner’s own mind and an expression of the subconsciousness?
Ray: We can create a lot by imagination, – monsters, demons, angels, also things like irrational fears, passions and addictions. We are creators by nature. However, this does not mean that we can easily create gods and goddesses, the spirits of the planetary spheres. They have a separate, independent existence outside of our minds. They are the administration of creation. Without them, nothing would work. All beings, including us as humans are receiving their influences and depending on our individual setting we receive more or less influences of the great diversity of deities in the spheres. This is comparable to a satellite receiver. Only in the perfect case, it is able to receive all TV programs in perfect quality. In the normal case, the satellite receiver gets only some and not all in good quality. Now, certainly, we are all connected as the spirits of the spheres are active on the highest mental plane and we are mental beings too, and on this plane time and space play no role. Due to our mental nature and the Akasha principle we can unite with these spirits to take part in their nature. The application of KTQ allows us to create all deities further on in ourselves. This means that we can invoke them. Indeed, there are no limits for the human spirit in the world of spirits. We just have to differentiate between our own imagination and real beings. Real beings offer information which we haven’t imagined while imagined beings look and behave exactly as we imagined them to do.
PAA: Are you able to mention anything about the origins of Bardons Key to the True Kabbalah? Some say there is a connection to the work or Kerning and possibly others before him.
Ray: I know such discussions and I know that it is a human desire to find sources. When we examine the polarity of God and humans, then we can see that God offers teachings which are received by humans. These higher insights are processed by humans with all their flaws and limitations, and as a result we have the religious, traditional and spiritual teachings on earth. Now, Franz Bardon incarnated, checked the present status of teachings and the used terms, and then transferred the eternal, divine four Tarot Cards into the present language. Bardon could have used a completely different language with different terms which he would have prefered but then no one would have been able to understand his teachings. In conclusion, it is not about the books of other authors which he has checked to see the level of initiation and to check which terms are in the present use. It is about the revelation of the eternal, universal teachings directly from the spheres. And KTQ is simply the highest level in science and arts of divine teachings. Imagine that you are a Quabbalist and that you visit a deity in the higher spheres. This deity will introduce itself in the quabbalistic way, according to the cosmic letters of its name. All deities are created by the Highest Spirit by using the cosmic language, the Quabbalah. These are practical experiences. And I also must point out that the “Magical Quabbalah” is not meant to be confused with lower kabbalistic teachings or the corresponding religion. I explain this in the course. And just to mention it – if you study the oracle of Manjushri you will find the cosmic language presented, certainly not with the term Quabbalah. We simply must distinguish divine teachings from human teachings.
PAA: Should a practitioner planning the start of KTQ work with a being from PME prior to starting KTQ or is it possible to go straight into KTQ with the right guidance.
Ray: All instructions are given in KTQ, so it is not necessary to take the effort of working with a deity from PME. If you have the right colors and the right pronunciation, then you can do the KTQ training without any problems. I have published a workbook “Meditation on the cosmic letters” and we have the online course with all exercises and instructions. KTQ does not have a difficult theory. So it is good to understand.
PAA: What is the impact of working with letters from a karmic perspective? They are essentially so significant and the very essence of creation so surely there must be a weight upon a person who decides to do this work?
Ray: The initiation and training with the letters offers the maximum of transformation, refinement and empowerment from human nature to the divine, macrocosmic nature. It is the maximum of spiritual development. The microcosm will be a perfect image of the macrocosm, meaning perfect balance in power and quality. The master who accomplishes this is then a complete divine spirit, a macrocosmic spirit on the same level as all the deities of the spheres, a true representative of the Highest and with this a true authority in creation.
Regarding karma, – as the mystical training works mainly on the Akasha plane, the transformation is not a matter of karma or fate and not connected to Saturn and the judges but it is all directly under the supervision of Divine Providence, the Highest. The cosmic language is used for own refinement, empowerment, for invoking deities in yourself, for research, for evocation, space impregnation but rarely for working on other people as everything must be justified and responsibility must be taken. As long as the master uses the letter for himself in 99% of all cases everything is fine. Applying divine energies for normal people is hard to justify. Special blessings or support in the development as well as special healing treatments can be imagined but normally “standard” energies are sufficient so that Quabbalah is not needed. So, in conclusion, it is more a matter if someone feels ready to undergo the comprehensive transformation process. For those who are ready, it is the highest fulfillment, the great treasure chest filled with the most precious gems.
PAA: What did you find different in the German language versions of IIH PME and KTQ versus the English versions?
Ray: Besides the translation errors, where for example simply wrong colors were chosen for the cosmic letters, there is a “standard problem of communication”. If you tell someone a story and this other person tells the story again, then you have deviations, simply because you have a different perception of what is important in comparison to the other person. And second, the other person adds content and details from his own imagination. This is a subconscious process. So even if you have the intention to offer a good translation, these problems occur easily, especially if it is a whole book you want to translate. And this means that a higher awareness is necessary to translate as perfectly as possible the instructions of Bardon. Today such things are easier as we have AI based translation technology – which certainly must be checked too. In comparison to the original German versions we find commentaries in the translations. They originate from good intentions but can be misleading or wrong or questionable. In the English versions it is also not always obvious who has written the commentary. I remember one comment where the translator said that he had to correct Bardon for some reason. This is what I call hubris. A translator is normally not a commentator and if a translator or commentator has the opinion that something is or could be wrong, then he can give a hint to the reader to check it if at all. But it is not usual just to change the text. Some comments are “nice” as the commentator compares for example letters in one quality which have a completely different nature and work in a completely different way. In conclusion, the ego of a translator should be quiet during the process of translation and the own opinion is also not requested as obviously the translators were not great adepts with theoretical and practical knowledge. Good intentions are nice but do not automatically offer any real value. Quite the contrary, they cause more confusion and problems if the necessary knowledge is not given. Again, these are subconscious processes which are the standard in communication.
PAA: In regard to evocation, is this a large part of your practice or has Kabbalah now become the main practice as it allows a creation right out of Akasha.
Ray: With KTQ things change. This means, as a master of IIH you can do evocation but you have to fulfill a lot of requirements. You need all magical tools. You have to prepare your room. You have to prepare yourself. And then it can still be a challenge to do the evocation. As a Quabbalist, you need nothing. No circle, no pentagram, no special tools, no cloths. As a Quabbalist you will choose a formula to express your divinity in the way you want respectively as it fits for the Spirit you want to contact. The application of the formula takes a few seconds. Then you can create a fitting atmosphere for the Spirit, as a formula directly derived from his name. And that’s it. In conclusion, the quabbalistic approach is much easier and faster and the Quabbalist has a completely different standing than the magician. On the other hand, the whole ceremony with cloths and tools is dropped which can be seen as a loss. But certainly, it is up to the Quabbalist and a Quabbalist can make use of all cloths and tools. Besides this, the Quabbalist can directly work with all divine virtues and powers which a Spirit of the spheres has. For a Quabbalist everything is directly available. A magician must work more. At some point, the Quabbalist can and will study the nature of the various Spirits of the spheres in a quabbalistic way to refine and empower his own nature to even higher degrees. This belongs to a higher Tarot Card and training.
PAA: Can you provide more information about your new course? Specifically why the strict course requirements so people can understand why these things are necessary before going onto practice these things.
Ray: Sure. The only energy where mastery is not required is vital energy. The five elements, light and the two fluids must be mastered as we need to be able to create them instantly, filling a whole space. Accumulation by breathing is also a part of the quabbalistic work. Mind and soul should be well-balanced, refined and empowered as we deal here with the highest, macrocosmic powers, powers which are beyond human nature. The student must be able to bear and to handle them. And this means that the energy system must be strong, clean and balanced. Then it is very useful to have experiences in the tenth step of IIH, to know how the unity with divine virtues feels like as we work only with divine virtues, divine powers and divine states of consciousness. At least the “taste” of the Divine should be experienced. The knowledge of human nature is important for working with organs. If you know the planetary spheres, it will help to understand the nature of the cosmic letters better. Then the student must understand that the whole course is based on transformation. If someone does not want to unfold his divine nature, then the practical training is not good for him. So, it takes a conscious decision to undergo the full refinement and empowerment process which is offered and requested. “I want initiations, powers and divine virtues, but I don’t want to change.” – this simply does not work. It is also important to understand that the “Quabbalah training” is a universal training in the cosmic language which stands beyond religion and human teachings. Confusing traditional ideas with universal teachings does not work. In the end, – certainly, even a total beginner on the path can start the quabbalistic training but here the training would take decades if success is given at all. Fulfilling the requirements offers good progress in a good time.
PAA: Any other points you think are important for those working IIH and approaching a stage where they could practice Kabbalah.
Ray: I think it is in main the call, the inner call to do the training. Before I started KTQ, I had a great respect and thought that this training is something which might come at the end of this incarnation. But due to some circumstances I felt the call to do it and it appeared that it was feasible. Much later, I got the insight that I had old connections to the teachings of the cosmic language. Looking back, I must say that it was not difficult for me to do the training. It was more the case that I have enjoyed this wonderland of spiritual gems, this treasure chest of the most precious gifts which are prepared for humans. And certainly, I still enjoy the quabbalistic work. It offers so much beauty and bliss. For those who lack clarity if KTQ is the right training or if they can make it, – I can only suggest trying it. The preliminary training does not offer total transformation, only the mystical training does it. So, the student who does not like it, can simply stop it.
PAA: Lastly you have created several courses to help practitioners with their training some over on your sites and one new with us at Perseus. Could let people know what services and courses you offer and where they can find them all.
Ray: I have offered several lectures and courses for the Templar Research Institute in the last years. In the future I am going to offer retreats with friends, – a combination of Yoga, Ajurveda, coaching and hermetic-spiritual exercises. At the moment we are working on the curriculum. This retreat is supposed to take place in nice areas with a holiday feeling. In general, I lack time, and that’s the main problem. Interested people can join my Sura Academy, can get individual mentoring or we meet for the Quabbalah training here at Perseus. Upcoming news will be spread on social media.
The Magical Quabbala Course
If you want to realize the macrocosmic divine nature in yourself, then this is the right course for you.
The cosmic letters offer the highest, mystical transformation, the initiation into all main mysteries of God´s nature and the ability to create as God does. You become a true son or daughter of God and a divine authority in creation.
You will get initiated into the application of the 27 letters of the cosmic language which is used by God, the Creator and all deities to create directly from Akasha. The cosmic language is used in the form of single letters, and two-, three-, four-letter formulas. You will learn how to use the letters and the formulas in the Akasha, on the mental, astral and material plane.
As the cosmic language is connected to the laws of creation, you will also be initiated into them and their practical application. At the end of the course, you will learn the synthesis of the names of the deities and how to apply them in a quabbalistic way.
What benefit do you get from participating?
Certainly, you can walk the path of self-initiation by following the Key to the True Quabbalah by Franz Bardon. Unfortunately, this approach comes along with some problems. The English translation contains many mistakes, – details which are crucial. The correct pronunciation of the letters is necessary. The instructions and descriptions of Bardon are very complex and can easily cause confusion. And Bardon has described the techniques like we know it from school. When you leave school, you work in an easier, more practical orientated way.
So, if you participate in our course, you will not only benefit from my long-term practical experiences but also from clear, easy to follow instructions, recommendations and reliable information. This offers the opportunity for efficient progress and good results.
Requirements to enter this Course
Please understand that this course has the following requirements for your safety and for making progress feasible:
The mastery of the five elements, the two fluids, light and the transfer of mind are absolutely necessary. Mind, soul and body must be well-balanced, in good health. Your degree of personal refinement must be high. A high maturity is the basis for managing the great divine powers.
If you have a basic ability to unite with divine virtues and divine consciousness, it will be beneficial. You need a basic knowledge of the human anatomy, – the location and shape of organs in the body.
It will be useful to have a practical understanding of the spheres according to Bardon (PME) as we find all the letters in the spheres respectively the spheres are made of the letters.
Please understand:
It is a serious decision to undergo the quabbalistic training as you will unfold the complete divine, macrocosmic nature within yourself. You will become a perfect image of God. This must be desired and accepted.
