Interview with Jan Tungli: My Winding Path from Religious Exploration to Spiritual Dreams and Franz Bardon


For years, Jan Tungli embarked on a relentless quest for spiritual enlightenment, delving into numerous religious denominations and sacred texts. However, his search ultimately led him down an unexpected path – the esoteric teachings of Franz Bardon. In this enlightening interview, he candidly recounts his winding journey, from grappling with the constraints of religious dogma to experiencing extraordinary spiritual dreams that validated his unique theories on the Tarot’s dual structure. He unveils the profound impact of Bardon’s work on his spiritual evolution and shares his perspective on the nature of growth and self-discovery within these esoteric realms.

Interview with Jan Tungli

PAA: How did you come to the work of Franz Bardon. Please introduce your path and history briefly.

During my college years, I explored various religious denominations. Sometimes it was just for a few months, but there were instances where I spent several years. It was a valuable experience because I delved into the Bible and other religious texts in detail. This included studying Buddhism, the Vedas, and important works from Hinduism.

However, after nearly 15 years of research, I arrived at the conclusion that every religion reaches a point where it stagnates and struggles to evolve further. The presence of hypocrisy and closed-minded dogmatism within religious denominations is a common human trait that transcends boundaries.

At that juncture, I dusted off Osho’s Zen Tarot, which had been sitting on my shelf for almost three years. Initially, I hesitated because I associated tarot with something potentially sinister. But as I read the description of the Fool card (Arcanum), I was pleasantly surprised. Around the same time, I also discovered Franz Bardon’s books.

Gradually, I delved deeper into Bardon’s writings, taking them more seriously. Simultaneously, I immersed myself in the study of tarot. I developed a theory that partially explained the structure of the tarot system. To my astonishment, hidden thoughts within Bardon’s books confirmed the validity of my theory. I published this theory under the name ‘The Dual Structure of Tarot.’

Back then, it was such a novel concept that no publisher was willing to invest their own money in its publication, given its divergence from other existing tarot-related publications.” As I delved into Franz Bardon’s teachings, I began experiencing peculiar dreams more frequently. These dreams were markedly different from typical ones—they were crystal clear.

Usually, spiritual beings (angels) would reveal something to me. Sometimes, it took years for me to fully grasp the meaning of what I had seen or experienced, allowing me to understand certain spiritual connections.

These dreams are unforgettable, their clarity and wonder setting them apart from the usual muddled dreams. Despite this, I consider myself a slow learner; it takes me quite a while to truly comprehend or master anything.

PAA: Did you face any challenges or obstacles in your practice of Franz Bardon’s Hermetic teachings, and if so, how did you overcome them?

I vividly remember when I began practicing, and after a few weeks, I had a peculiar dream. In this dream, Satan appeared, but he didn’t look frightening; he was dressed in white like an angel. Strangely, I knew exactly who this being was within the dream. He said, “Come! I’ll show you something.”

I replied, “I won’t go. I know who you are.” He left without forcing the issue. As I continued walking, I suddenly found myself in the main square of a very peculiar city. Initially, I thought the buildings had been bombed, but upon closer inspection, I realized they were poorly constructed rather than damaged.

Standing there, I wondered who would build so many shoddily designed structures. Once again, Satan appeared in his white attire and said, “See? Things aren’t that simple.” Then I woke up. This experience frightened me, causing me to pause my practice for a year. Only after that year did I dare to continue because I understood that embarking on the path of magical development attracts not only positive but also negative forces.

Another challenge I faced was related to kundalini energy. Unfortunately, Franz Bardon doesn’t provide detailed instructions, assuming that everyone already possesses the necessary knowledge, which has been known for a long time. At that time, I had only superficial information about kundalini from yoga books.

However, I decided to try raising it. I had felt this energy as a tingling sensation along my spine several times. The meditation succeeded. Fortunately, I recognized that it was a powerful energy and prevented it from erupting like a volcano. Instead, I gradually allowed it to rise through my spine with each breath, reaching the crown chakra. Despite this success, I encountered more challenges.

I began feeling intense pressure below my skull, eventually leading to headaches. I had a headache for several days, and at times, I felt as if I could ignite like a torch from within. That’s when I went to the esoteric festival held in the main town, to be sure there would be someone there who could help.I was very surprised because no one I asked could help. They said that I should go to a doctor, send the energy back, or that it is definitely not the kundalini energy but something else is wrong with me, etc. I was already walking there completely listlessly, when a gypsy woman looked at me and said: “Man! Blow all that energy out of your head, because you’re going to go crazy! Don’t you have a headache?” I researched what to do and all the pain was gone the same day. Only later did I understand what happened and what I should have done.

What is described in several places is that the kundalini energy is an initiation energy that tells you to use the crown chakra. Although I was able to use the kundalini in its erupting fiery form for several more years, its intensity subsided within a few years. It is an initiation energy, because after this you have to use the crown chakra, which works with much finer energies. I think you can raise the kundalini only once in a lifetime, although I may be wrong, but this is my experience.

PAA: Did you follow the books in a strict order, or did you go your own way in his practice of Hermetics?

Yes, almost. Let me share another incident related to this. I was talking to a friend about Bardon and lent him the book. We met again after two weeks when he returned the book to me. I asked him what he thought of it, and he began cursing, saying that he nearly died. What happened? I inquired. He explained that he had read a bit and immediately attempted to activate the fire element. He had a vivid imagination and succeeded in doing so. However, the problem arose when he noticed that his fever was getting stronger after the practice, and it wouldn’t subside. He became feverish, and nothing helped. Eventually, he lay sick for several days, relying on medication to recover. He declared that he never wanted to deal with it again. Perhaps this illustrates the importance of progressing systematically through the exercises.

PAA: What advice would you give to others who are interested in practicing Franz Bardon’s Hermetic teachings, based on your own experiences and insights?

I would like to draw your attention to the simplest thing. I would recommend working with the life energy, the prana energy, which can be developed in a relatively short time and can be felt physically. If this succeeds, then many doubts disappear, and it can be used for many things. It can be used very well to heal others and ourselves. Bardon deals relatively little with this, because it can also be found in many other books. The prana can be circulated in our body and in the chakras. It is incredible what else it can be used for. With the prana and the 4 elements, a strong magical protection can also be created, which we may sometimes need.

PAA: How has your practice of Hermetics influenced your personal and spiritual development, and what benefits have you gained from it?

Primarily, one finds the meaning of life. People generally do not like to deal with this question, they do not consider it important. However, without the right worldview and value system, many psychological problems can arise in the subconscious, which sooner or later breakthrough in various forms. What we consider to be the essence of the world, over time we become similar to it, because we imagine ourselves according to its pattern. Our inner essence must find its way to God (the purest abstract idea, above which there is nothing, as Bardon says), if this fails, then we have difficulty finding the true meaning of our lives. (Do not misunderstand, because I do not mean a narrow religious belief system under this.)

PAA: Have you noticed any changes or transformations in your life or consciousness as a
result of practicing Hermetics, and if so, what are they?

I can mention health, but not only physical, but also psychological and spiritual levels. Nowadays, people sacrifice a lot for their physical health, but they do not care much about their mental and spiritual health and faith. By practicing self-knowledge in meditation, we can also develop a kind of psychoanalysis, and we have the opportunity to free ourselves from the bondage of karma (at least in part). In fact, everyone has two masters: Fate and Meditation.

For example, if we take the relationship between a man and a woman, we can recognize in ourselves the animal instincts, but also the noblest spiritual self-surrender, which can only be compared to divine love. This is love, which on a coarse material level is only the aspect of sex, on a higher level it is pure love, which I think is the greatest power of humanity. In fact, this binds us to God. Unfortunately, we do not yet know how to use the forces of love (which are taught by the intelligences of the Venus sphere), but I am convinced that this is such a high level, which can be compared to a constant magical trance state, where almost anything becomes possible. It is no coincidence that before the Sun sphere we have to get to know the Venus sphere.

Only by the initiation of the Venusian beings can the magician acquire such energy that he can also visit the Sun sphere. This voluntary self-surrendering love is increasingly disappearing from our world, and often becomes an object of contempt, or degrades to the level of bodily pleasures. So to this question, what was the biggest change for me, I can say that it was the discovery of a higher (transcendent) level of love between a man and a woman. I do not know how understandable or how misunderstood what I wanted to say, but it is very difficult to express the essence of this in words. We can also interpret the words of John the Apostle as follows: “Anyone who does not love (is not in love) does not know God, because God is love.” (1.Jn 4:8)

PAA: Can you elaborate on how the YOD-HE-VAV-HE quadruple key is practically applied at level VIII, as mentioned in the text from your website, and provide insights into the specific exercises or techniques associated with mastering the elements?

This is one of the greatest secrets, the huge secret of love and creation, as Bardon says. The practice was written by Bardon, but as in most cases he did not explain its meaning, what actually happens and what it means. This is very common with Bardon, he leaves it to the student to figure out the connections and their hidden meaning. From a magical point of view, this is very correct, because everyone has to figure it out for themselves. I revealed some things from these hidden connections for inspirational purposes, which is not correct in that the meditating magician has to figure it out for himself. It is not right if someone else tells it.

Everyone has to practice magic through an individual, hidden, intimate relationship. Where there is love, there is intimacy (secret) too, without which love is impossible between a man and a woman. The same is true for the relationship between the magician and the divine forces.

Despite all this, I can say a few helpful thoughts as inspiration. Let’s take the first tarot card, the magician, depiction. The lotus above the magician with 10 double petals and the 16 blue gems around the quintessence is a depiction that hides the entire symbolism of the tarot. I have already written about this, but this is not all. If we imagine ourselves in the place of the magician, then on our left side will be the Sun, the elements of fire and air, and on our right side will be the Moon. Perhaps everyone knows that this should be reversed.

The Sun should be on our right hand. It is worth thinking about what is the reason for this exchange? The reason, I think, is that this is not an invented artistic depiction, but a real magical mirror image served as the basis for this drawing. As we know, the right and left sides are reversed in the mirror image. This means that what we see here is the real depiction of the crown chakra and the chakra above it.

Now let’s take the third tarot card. Here too, Bardon wants to help us with this depiction, because he depicts the Akasha not in violet-blue, but as the Sun, in brownish-gold (not yellowish-gold). Moreover, he depicts the element of air in a slightly purple color. These are not coincidences, they have serious reasons. I also drew this, but I shouldn’t say more about it.

PAA: How does the concept of Akashic principles in Vedantic Hinduism relate to Franz Bardon’s description of the highest primordial principle and the creation of the four elemental qualities?

This question is closely related to the previous question. It is known that there are parts in the Hindu and Vedic scriptures that suggest that Vishnu is the supreme deity, but according to other scriptures Shiva, and again from other scriptures it can be read that Brahma. Opinions are still divided to this day, which they closed for the sake of peace, that all three are equal, because each has a different role (trinity).

As we know, the astral body connects the physical and spiritual bodies. This also means that it carries a kind of imprint of both the physical and the spiritual energies. Bardon also mentions that the root chakra (Muladhara) is the center of the earth element, and it is at this chakra that the student can recognize Brahma. But Brahma is on a higher level the crown chakra (Sahasrara), from where the energies of the 4 elements flow out, which symbolizes Brahma’s 4 faces.

Everyone who practices with the chakras in practice notices that there is a very close connection between the crown chakra and the root chakra. In fact, the kundalini also appears because of this and breaks through to the crown chakra, that is, to its own higher level. This can also be understood as the union of the female and the male. The woman here submits to the man in love, and says: “Do with me what you want.” From this moment, the magician knows that he can use his body as an alchemical laboratory in meditation. It is the crown chakra (Brahma) that projects the spiritual into the astral body, the forehead and throat chakras.

The throat chakra (Visuddha) is the center of Akasha, and on the level of analogies it can be associated with the deity Shiva. The forehead chakra (Ajna) will be Vishnu. But this is just a projected image, an imprint of the spirit, because there is a different arrangement in the mental body. So depending on what level we work on, the relationship of the three deities is different on every level. That is why there is so much confusion in the Vedic scriptures about the relationship of the three deities. But the ONE divinity
can only be understood by Brahma. Of course, what I said here now is just a simplified picture.

PAA: Are you able to mention any of your work with the 2nd and 3rd book?

I only deal with the first book in practice, even with that I have plenty to do.

PAA: Your website has a great deal of information. What are the key things you wish to communicate via your blog?

The most important thing for me is that I discovered a clear connection between magic and Christian teaching. This connection could have been guessed for a long time from thoughts that appeared here and there in the Bible, but only now has it become visible in its entirety. I think it is no coincidence that this information has only become understandable now, although it has been written down for hundreds of years, but almost no one has noticed its true meaning. Franz Bardon probably knew the connection between Christianity and magic, and he could have also pointed out these connections, but he knew that everything has its own time. John the Apostle wrote the Revelation in such a way that its true meaning would only be understandable when the right time came.

The secret of the seven stars is, in my opinion, one of the most beautiful proofs that the future will be a society with a completely different way of thinking, where the science of the spirit will be one of the most important things in everyone’s life. (So literally: God sends his seven spirits to the earth, as we can read in Revelation.) We can also say about the future that the whole earth will be filled with the knowledge of God’s glory.

PAA: Is there anything else you would like to share with readers?

The age of enlightenment, and the philosophy laid down by Immanuel Kant, which still characterizes our present age, is based on doubt. As a result, we only accept what can be proven.

This has many good sides, but it also has a negative side, which caused me a lot of trouble during my magical development. Here I want to draw attention to the fact that if we get some ability on the way of our magical development and we have successfully applied it several times in practice, then we should never doubt it again.

The power of doubt is incredible, it can slowly crumble our faith. Logical doubt says: “Did it really happen? Did we just imagine all this? What if the witnesses also imagined it? Could it have been just a coincidence?” and similar thoughts. This can be very harmful, and can lead to losing everything we have already acquired. In connection with this, I would quote the case as a lesson, when Jesus walked on the water, and also allowed Peter to walk on the water with him. But Peter was frightened by the strong wind
and began to sink. Then Jesus said to Peter: “You of little faith, why did you doubt?” (Matthew 14:32)

PAA: Many thanks for your time in answering our questions.

Further Information

Jan’s Website


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